Forum:Species of Enroth
This is somewhat related to the Towns of Enroth discussion we had earlier. Template:Species (Enroth) was created by an inexperienced user who didn't start a discussion about whether to have such a template, and how the pages should look. So I've decided to start the discussion instead. Basically, what it boils down to is this: # Should we create species pages for the sapient creatures of Enroth? Examples are Genie (Enroth) and Centaur (Enroth). # If we do, what should the pages look like? What should they contain? # Should we create a "Races" or "Species" infobox, like Template:CharacterInfobox or Template:NationInfobox? I can start creating the pages later, if that's what we decide to do. If not, we should delete the navbox, as it's creating a lot of red links.Narve (talk) 19:10, May 26, 2016 (UTC) I am not opposed to the creation of Enroth species pages. There exists similar pages for Ashan, so it seems fair that pre-Ashan races get the same treatment. Speaking of Ashan, if a Races/Species infobox gets used for Enroth (which I support, seeing as how the current box organizes them by continental region), I support a similar box for Ashan. Kimarous (talk) 19:44, May 26, 2016 (UTC) I am not against, either. But the deal is which templates to use and which sections should be written. I can say for the third note that races sounds better than species. Energy X ∞ 21:06, May 27, 2016 (UTC) : Well, an infobox would obviously have to contain the usual "name", "image" and "appearances" fields. Should we note what continent they're found on? Do we add their appearance in Heroes IV, if applicable? It's still the same race/species, after all, just having traveled to another planet (so if there's a continent tag, it might read "Enroth (continent) Antagarich Jadame Iranese or something). : Do we note which factions and nations they belong to? Which game they were introduced in? Should we have a list of known individuals, like on the genie page? Maybe a status, noting if they've appeared after the Reckoning or not? If they haven't, do we put "dead" or "presumed lost" or something? : Should we have a history section? If so, what do we put there? For example, the centaurs on Enroth were part of Alamar's warlock armies, which worked with Archibald's necromancer guild during the Second Succession War. Meanwhile, the centaurs on Antagarich were allied with the elves of AvLee, but after the Reckoning, the centaurs joined the barbarian tribal lands. Is that the sort of thing we should write - essentially tracking their progress from game to game? : Another thing: Do genies and elementals really belong in a list of species native to Enroth, given that they're NOT native to Enroth, but come from the Elemental Planes? : The thing about the Ashan pages is that Ubisoft have put out a lot of info about the races of Ashan, so it's easy to create a page. The same cannot be said for the original continuity.Narve (talk) 18:17, May 29, 2016 (UTC) I'd still like some feedback on what information the pages should contain. The last thing we need is a set of pages all marked "Incomplete" or "Stub".Narve (talk) 13:26, June 3, 2016 (UTC) I agree that we need all those sections, except the part about status (since most of the races managed to survive in Axeoth). As for genies and elementals, one could say it is just an exception, since they are more active on Enroth than on their home planes, right? Also, the individuals could be a potential danger, since there could be many representatives. Energy X ∞ 18:24, June 3, 2016 (UTC) :We also need a new infobox, right? Since NationInfobox is not good enough for this. Energy X ∞ 18:25, June 3, 2016 (UTC) : I don't know what you mean by "the individuals could be a potential danger". Do you mean we shouldn't include such a list? Should I remove it from the genie page, when I get around to updating that page? : I've created a Template:RaceInfobox now. I'm not sure whether we should include in-game factions, or nations, or both. (for example, should the centaur list "Mountain", "Warlock", "Rampart", and "Stronghold", or "AvLee" and "Tribal Lands"?) So I just made a tag called "affiliation".Narve (talk) 07:54, June 4, 2016 (UTC) : That certainly is a perplexing issue - the "nation" or "town" affiliation. I'm of two minds on the matter: A) listing the town first and having any associated nations in brackets behind it (say, "Rampart (AvLee)"), or B) just doing the town affiliation and extrapolating on nation affiliations in the article proper. Well, or C) split the difference and do both. Probably C, I imagine. Kimarous (talk) 08:14, June 4, 2016 (UTC) :: But the thing is, the races also appear in the Might and Magic games, which don't have factions the way the Heroes games do.Narve (talk) 08:22, June 4, 2016 (UTC) :: Well, then I'm officially stumped since I know even less about pre-Ashan than you guys. It's the main reason I've been quiet during this discussion: I know jack squat and Enroth, Axeoth, and *especially* Xeen. Heck, since as early as this conversation started, I've been wondering why angels haven't been part of the list, but since I don't know where pre-Ashan angels come from or what they even are (aliens like the Kreegans?), I just kept my mouth shut lest I swallow my foot. So... yeah, going back to "shutting up because I know nothing" mode. Kimarous (talk) 08:36, June 4, 2016 (UTC) :::Well, I guess the template should be renamed, to cover all the races from the original universes, rather than just Enroth. I mean, we are treating most of the characters like they in previous games, by summing up their biography sections. If we run into some inconsistencies, it'd be better to skip over that and think of a better action then. Energy X ∞ 19:26, June 4, 2016 (UTC) : "Races of the Ancient universe", perhaps? Kimarous (talk) 20:11, June 4, 2016 (UTC) But when we're covering characters, it IS the same person from game to game. The Sandro in Heroes III is exactly the same person as the Sandro in Heroes IV. But the goblins on Xeen don't really have anything to do with the goblins on Enroth.Narve (talk) 16:45, June 5, 2016 (UTC) And yes, the angels are most likely aliens like the kreegans. When asked whether science fiction elements (like the Forge) belonged in the Heroes series, writer Greg Fulton replied that "Many people forget the Inferno is not populated by demons. It's populated by aliens who look like demons. If I told you the origin of the Arch Angels I'm sure many of you would have a heart attack." (source)Narve (talk) 16:52, June 5, 2016 (UTC) : I've updated the Centaur (Enroth) and Genie (Enroth) pages now. I'd appreciate it if people had a look.Narve (talk) 06:58, July 2, 2016 (UTC) Yeah, that looks good. The infobox is a bit off, since it only needs those icons to be added. Also, those subspecies should go with the main pages. I mean, what could one write about hobgoblins that does not belong to ordinary goblins, or evil eyes to beholders? Energy X ∞ 22:02, July 2, 2016 (UTC) : I don't know what you mean by "it only needs those icons to be added". Could you rephrase that?Narve (talk) 22:52, July 2, 2016 (UTC)